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Emirates från Köpenhamn
- Thread starter alf
- Start date
Jag tror att största anledningen att F gick dåligt från CPH, är att Emirates inte säljer miles till oss (iaf inte till bra priser). Om de går med i en allians så ska vi nog se till att fylla upp deras F-kabin från CPH.
(dock inte med revenue-pax data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 )
(dock inte med revenue-pax data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7 )
There are simply no culture for First in Scandinavia. You all live in modest countries living after what the world regards as the Scandinavian modell. Scandinavians don't like to show off their wealth or benefit as in deep contrast to the Russian market. Therefore First does not sell and it's beyond my imagination why EK came up whit this product from CPH.
They know like all other carriers that First is non existent in Scandinavia. They where being told and convinced that the market was there and with heavy losses following their decision. When they operated the 3 class frame, Copenhagen
Performed very poorly and was internally presented by the revenue department among the bottom in Europe.
That's one of the reasons why the route now receives a two class 400 seater.
The yield is to low and bringing an aircraft more suitable for this market goes well in hand with the support by Kastrup airport for airlines increasing its presence or capacity. So as I wrote earlier, EK will have no problems filling their 400 daily seats out of Copenhagen, but It will take time and the move to a larger aircraft is not because the demand is increasing rapidly. It's a combination of yield pressure from revenue management, wrong entry to the First market and incentives from Kastrup to reward new capacity that can stimulate further growth at the airport.
I do have respect for any persons contacts and knowledge to the topic discussed.
It's not my intention to be questioning that. However be aware that the stations and offices on sites such as Emirates Denmark does not share the same information and complexity knowledge as the HQ an revenue department and upper management.
JohnP
Holland
They know like all other carriers that First is non existent in Scandinavia. They where being told and convinced that the market was there and with heavy losses following their decision. When they operated the 3 class frame, Copenhagen
Performed very poorly and was internally presented by the revenue department among the bottom in Europe.
That's one of the reasons why the route now receives a two class 400 seater.
The yield is to low and bringing an aircraft more suitable for this market goes well in hand with the support by Kastrup airport for airlines increasing its presence or capacity. So as I wrote earlier, EK will have no problems filling their 400 daily seats out of Copenhagen, but It will take time and the move to a larger aircraft is not because the demand is increasing rapidly. It's a combination of yield pressure from revenue management, wrong entry to the First market and incentives from Kastrup to reward new capacity that can stimulate further growth at the airport.
I do have respect for any persons contacts and knowledge to the topic discussed.
It's not my intention to be questioning that. However be aware that the stations and offices on sites such as Emirates Denmark does not share the same information and complexity knowledge as the HQ an revenue department and upper management.
JohnP
Holland
Tak for interessant discussion JohnP og Copenhagen. Det bliver formentlig nu kun et spørgsmål om tid før Gulf Air bliver kvalt af EK og QR og må forlade CPH? Hvis jeg læser rigtigt, er der INGEN first class til Skandinavien overhovedet? Jeg holder med JohnP at vi skandinaver ikke er de første til at betale en herregård for 1st class når man har bz class der er det rene luksus....
pep skrev:Tak for interessant discussion JohnP og Copenhagen. Det bliver formentlig nu kun et spørgsmål om tid før Gulf Air bliver kvalt af EK og QR og må forlade CPH? Hvis jeg læser rigtigt, er der INGEN first class til Skandinavien overhovedet? Jeg holder med JohnP at vi skandinaver ikke er de første til at betale en herregård for 1st class når man har bz class der er det rene luksus....Klicka för att utvidga...
Gulf have suspended their operations from Copenhagen. I think last flight was in the beginning of this month.
Air China have served Stockholm with First Class, but it depends on what kind of AC they are rotating to ARN.
Air China hade First class på sina Boeing B777 plan när de använde det på Beijing-Stockholm v.v. innan de började operera Airbus A330.JohnP skrev:Air China have served Stockholm with First Class, but it depends on what kind of AC they are rotating to ARN.Klicka för att utvidga...
I would say there is an increasing amount of people in scandinavia (mostly Sweden) who travel in first. The problem is most aren't paying for it, instead they use points or upgrade data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7
All this is because of a specific homepage...
All this is because of a specific homepage...
That is not correct. What is correct is that traditional branches such as shipping have moved from first to business. At the same time pax on leisure trips tends upgrade their flights with earned miles as you write. However the increase in the private market is not enough to bild up for the decrease in the traditional segment. Almost all carriers are suspending or leading their fleet development away from first.
Russia is the only exception in Europe when we talk first. Norway is the only country in Scandinavia where business tickets for private trips are increasing. The rest of the north moves from business to eco.
Russia is the only exception in Europe when we talk first. Norway is the only country in Scandinavia where business tickets for private trips are increasing. The rest of the north moves from business to eco.
JohnP skrev:First class from CPH was a disaster. It's a product that don't sell in Scandinavia and is the reason why EK have had Stockholm and Oslo on hold. It's hard to free up two class frames as 3 class frames is out of the question. It's a prestige for an airport to be served by a first class product, but It failed totally from Copenhagen and I know that is hard for the airport to admit.From my experience from KLM and other carriers, Norway is by far the strongest market in the Nordic when we talk yield crust, but that's another story and its all about business class, not first.Swedes are the only ones who have some few companies that still stick to first, expecially through BA and LHR.CPH are lucky that it's Qatar and Emirates that are compeeting. Other carriers would have reduced or pulled out, but this airlines are prestige carriers who fight no matter the cost.Fares are ridiculously low. That's good for the pax and the airport but not for the airlines. It's also good for Copenhagen bringing in growth.It's not difficult to fill an airplane. To make it profitable is another thing and Qatar have the highest average load when you look at the last 12 month of operation. Their rates are also higher.I wish EK all the best at CPH and I'm certain that they will recieve a A380, but there is a lot of things happening behind the PR machine of Kastrup and it's press windows.I worked with DL/KL when we launched CPH-ATL and JFK.What I can say is that I was surprised to se the PR strategy of CPH and how far it was from the reality. Keeping up the apprentice was very important.My experience from the Nordic countries is that you should and must not present anything that goes against the interest or operations of Kastrup. That's a Dannish fenonema that you do not find elsewhereThe importance of Kastrup is deeper for the Danes than the capital airports of Helsinki or Stockholm. It's easy visable for a foreginet to se in the aviation media and different debates.So again, it's not an attempt to attack Emirates and Copenhagen but rather a contribution to the discussion through my experience and sources to the topic presented.Klicka för att utvidga...
Tack för en väldigt intressant debatt!
Det citerade inlägget är bland det bästa jag någonsin läst här på BC!
Tycker dock det är synd att EK tog bort F produkten från CPH. Men CPH eller HAM same same but different!
https://www.businessclass.com/forum/attachments/ek-jpg.14146/
nyfikengrau
New member
JohnP skrev:Norway is the only country in Scandinavia where business tickets for private trips are increasing. The rest of the north moves from business to eco.Klicka för att utvidga...
Intressant!
Någon skillnad longhaul vs shorthaul?
Usually for flights over 4 hours.
Both Lufthansa, KLM and BA are refering to Norway as one of their strongest yielded services pr flight in Europe. Qatar is making a killing and planned 9 weekly this summer.
Norwegians have money and pay well. Oslo would have several other LH carriers if it where not for the complete incompetence for the administration of their national Airport. I worked with them regarding a KL/DL service to JFK 4 years ago. We got slots for our 767, but ended up increasing LHR instead when CSA gave up slots there. A complete absence of interest and understanding for their own potenitial for new carriers made us give up.
Look to Copenhagen. They are VERY and I repeat, VERY professional. I'm sorry my friends but Oslo, Helsinki and Stockholm do not stand a chance!
Both Lufthansa, KLM and BA are refering to Norway as one of their strongest yielded services pr flight in Europe. Qatar is making a killing and planned 9 weekly this summer.
Norwegians have money and pay well. Oslo would have several other LH carriers if it where not for the complete incompetence for the administration of their national Airport. I worked with them regarding a KL/DL service to JFK 4 years ago. We got slots for our 767, but ended up increasing LHR instead when CSA gave up slots there. A complete absence of interest and understanding for their own potenitial for new carriers made us give up.
Look to Copenhagen. They are VERY and I repeat, VERY professional. I'm sorry my friends but Oslo, Helsinki and Stockholm do not stand a chance!
pep skrev:Dont underestimate ARN ! They are biting the heels of CPH and have a faster growth than other major airports in Scandinavia. The emergence of new TXL Berlin Tegel will kill CPH and boost ARN and HEL...?Klicka för att utvidga...
That is not correct as OSL is the fastest growing airport in Scandinavia.
It has worn that title for several years.
However Berlin must open before it will ever be in a possition to fight CPH.
copenhagen
New member
JohnP skrev:The yield is to low and bringing an aircraft more suitable for this market goes well in hand with the support by Kastrup airport for airlines increasing its presence or capacity. So as I wrote earlier, EK will have no problems filling their 400 daily seats out of Copenhagen, but It will take time and the move to a larger aircraft is not because the demand is increasing rapidly. It's a combination of yield pressure from revenue management, wrong entry to the First market and incentives from Kastrup to reward new capacity that can stimulate further growth at the airport.Klicka för att utvidga...
Just for the record - In January the average load factor for Emirates at CPH was close to 95%. Based on two-class 428 pax 773 used on 26 of the 31 days and three-class 364 pax 773 used the remaining 6 days. Source: The Danish Transport Authority.
I have a feeling that you for some reason have an agenda to undermine the success of Emirates at CPH. I am also very impresses by your knowledge of Scandinavian aviation and in particular the Norwegian part - especially when you live in Holland as stated. And why a Danish name when you do not speak Danish or are Danish. Hmmmm...
Tak for 2nd opinion til Copenhagen! Interessant at det tilsyneladende går EK vældig godt! Jeg troede de blev klemt af ever-expanding Qatar, der jo har kvalt Gulf Air på CPH. Ved du om der er andre First Class flyselskaber til CPH? Jeg antager at når du skriver 3 class at det involverer 1st class? Hvordan kan man vide hvilke dage/hvornår flyet har 1st class?Copenhagen skrev:........average load factor for Emirates at CPH was close to 95%. Based on two-class 428 pax 773 used on 26 of the 31 days and three-class 364 pax 773 used the remaining 6 days. Source: The Danish Transport Authority.Klicka för att utvidga...
Här kan man se vilka flygplan Emirates flyger på sin rutter: (välj månad och destination)pep skrev:Tak for 2nd opinion til Copenhagen! Interessant at det tilsyneladende går EK vældig godt! Jeg troede de blev klemt af ever-expanding Qatar, der jo har kvalt Gulf Air på CPH. Ved du om der er andre First Class flyselskaber til CPH? Jeg antager at når du skriver 3 class at det involverer 1st class? Hvordan kan man vide hvilke dage/hvornår flyet har 1st class?Klicka för att utvidga...
The EK Source - Emirates Airline Route Tracker.
OT:
Emirates har även startat fraktflygningar till CPH med B777 freighter, 1gång/vecka data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7